CSADKenyon
Joe Klesner, provost of Kenyon College, welcomed conference attendees prior to Howard Dean, former governor of Vermont, Steven Pinker from Harvard University and Heather Mac Donald from the Manhattan Institute participated in a panel discussion which was moderated by Tom Karako of Kenyon College.
Source
Civil Discourse and America
With this video I lost all respect for Howard Dean, just like I lost all respect for Ezra Klein when he talked with Sam Harris about race and Charles Murray.
Wow, how has Dean been reelected since 1991?!? He is so far from the middle and that is ok. What is not ok is he does not know what he does not know. He is the definition of an echo chamber.
Howard Dean and his garish tie should get off the stage until he learns how to accurately portray someone else's position.
"…or maybe even saying the right thing at the wrong time." That sounds like a self-defeating argument. Should one wait for the appropriate time to say the right thing? Especially when it is said in print, and anyone may read it whenever they want to (or not read it if they don't want to)?
In her initial comments, MacDonald described the victim mentality and oppression narrative pervasive on college campuses (especially elite ones), and subsequently Dean began his comments saying that he had not experienced that at all. Later, in the Q&A, student after student proved MacDonald right.
Dean's tie says everything about his mental capacity.
New rule for question time: You have four sentences with a total of ten clauses, and your fourth sentence must end in a question mark.
Howard Dean's question regarding shouting someone else down is a trick question. The shouting down of another is not free speech if it meant to prevent others from speaking. It also takes away the right of others to listen if they so choose. These speakers are not speaking in an open public square they are at events where one must choose to be there or not.
He is also comparing fairness on the same level as a right. They are not the same thing. Someone can have the right to do something that we, the individual, find unfair. Fairness is entirely subjective where as rights are objective. A business maybe the right to remove someone from their position for any reason but that doesn't mean it is fair. Under Dean's assumption, Jim Crow laws and businesses were within their right (by law and therefore fair) to discriminate against black people from their businesses. This is absolutely false. Right =/= Fair.
I will stand by the notion that business are not people. They are made up of people. They should not be seen as such.
Wow Howard Dean completely lies through his teeth about the Yale prof and Damore at Google
How did Howard Dean get on this panel? He seems to be grossly misrepresenting each situation he’s commenting on.
It’s like three adults and a hundred narcissistic nihilists
Prof. Pinker at 40:23 is one of the most articulate explanations of James Damore's innocence and the absolute injustice that occurred to him I've yet heard. I've shared it with a lot of people who said it changed their mind on that issue.
Thank you Howard Dean for reminding us why Trump won.
Howard Dean….Milo didn't not cause violence at Berkely, that was the people protesting him! HE MANAGES tO GET THIS COMPLETELY BACKWARDS!!
Dean was totally disingenuous!
great discussion. The climate debate is an interesting one for me. What if the evidence for horrific climate change is ideologically driven? What if some of it is pseudo-science ?
This attitude of "there are consequences for your speech" will not end well because all it means is that it becomes a battle of accruing enough power and manufacturing offence in order to silence and expel one's enemies. That's an amoral battleground devoid of the principle of free speech in and of itself but what happens when speech is removed as a possibility? Would the left call it free speech if they were banned from using telephones for example because telephone companies all decided that leftism was hateful and dangerous. Then any competitor phone companies found they couldn't open a bank account because the credit card companies happened to agree that leftism which would tax credit card company executives is actually "hateful". Should we start a campaign to get Howard Dean fired? I'm sure we can find something to offend someone. If he offended enough people then we can do it boys and girls! We can enact Social justice upon this evil man… or maybe that's the wrong way to go.
If we don't value free speech socially then government protection is useless and without speech what is left? If the left now thinks it is acceptable to ostracize blasphemers they have become that which they once claimed to oppose on principle. Of course the modern social censors are often of a new generation but they betray the honest left wingers and liberals who believe in the fundamental principles of human dignity.
James Damore was a victim of context says Howard Dean. What context was that? A male dominated field he says. Is this the same male dominated field where a man was fired for a factually based document? That's some male domination! A male dominated field that tolerates open discrimination against men and fires a man for not completely toeing the feminist party line. I would call that a feminist and leftist dominated field since they seem to be the ones holding the power.
What would the excuse be if he were a nurse for example and wrote a similar memo that the noble Governor described as scatalogical? Would his firing in such a situation be justified by the fact he is in a female dominated field and needs to be sensitive to the feelings of the women he works with every day? After all, how can a sexist male who stated that men and women differ in interests and psychology ever expect to work in a female dominated field? In what case is it ok to state reality without feminists of both sexes kicking up such a hysterical fuss that you end up almost blacklisted? Perhaps one could get away with stating the facts if one is explaining why women are the majority in a particular high status field?
In short, Howard Dean is full of the very scat which he accused James Damore of having written. I'm done playing that game and I hope more people lose their patience every day. The left as it currently exists is evil and those who excuse it are blithely allowing evil to be perpetrated. Since the left seems to view the right as evil and fuelled by hate then I don't see why we shouldn't return the sentiment. Steven Pinker and Heather Mac Donald are absolutely right and if they are "on the left" then they are liberals and I support them. Anyone who doesn't take their view can go into the "evil other" basket in my mind because I'm sick of the right bringing a feather duster to a cannon fight.
"I would argue that hate speech is fighting words because look what happens at Berkeley when somebody like Milo Yiannopoulos comes to town… but you know… maybe somebody… we could have other arguments"
It's good to know that all it takes for it to potentially define something as unprotected hate speech is to get an angry enough mob to come protest a speaker. Perhaps next time Governor Dean has a lecture a group of right wing students should come clad in masks and smash the place up because they were so hurt by something he said. Or maybe they could make something up? But the Governor says he has pulled back a bit since saying that hate speech is not protected. I don't believe him because in my country we do not have freedom of speech and the authoritarians speak just like him about nuance and lines. Americans, do not let them ever take this fundamental and hard fought right from you because nowhere else on earth respects this value and when you lose it there will be nowhere left to hide.
The students are even more lost than Howard Dean but I suppose that is unsurprising.
"How can we expect students of lesser privilege to feel comfortable voicing their opinions…?"
They aren't children! They are your equals lady so stop treating them with kid gloves like some poor weak animal that you need to nurse back to health or tiptoe around. Operate based on principles and treat people as equals because the color of someone's skin or the genitals between their legs are irrelevant to the intellectual argument they are making… unless it's based on emotional manipulation or appeals to authority.
I sometimes think left wingers actually look down upon non whites and see women as inferior and weak because it would never have occurred to me to treat a woman who isn't speaking up any differently from a man who isn't speaking up. Whereas I've seen people who ascribe to the privilege narrative actually say that women are less likely to ask for a raise and therefore you must offer women raises proactively. This statement manages to be condescending to women and sexist against men all in one. It's madness.
I fear for the future of the world.
What a scary politician
I didn't know enough about Howard Dean in the past to have formed an opinion of him. But what I saw here was disgusting. He displayed little-to-no understanding of the facts surrounding Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying leaving Evergreen, but seemed to be convinced they were bad actors – and reveled in their departure. Fool.
Howard Dean should do an episode of Drunk History
Pinker on Damore's document: well-written, reasonable, defensible…even though I may disagree with a few points
Dean on Damore's document: scatalogical analysis of why women shouldn't/couldn't be as good engineers
I know it is reflex to call someone from the other side stupid but I think that is too simple. I don't think Dean is stupid. I don't think he could get as far as he as being stupid. It is also too easy to say he is evil. What I don't get is that even after being carefully (and thoroughly) corrected by Pinker, he still completely misrepresents Damore's document. I would love to understand that without resorting to tribalistic rhetoric. What is going on in his head?
I realize it is naive to expect to have a rational discussion on the You Tube discussion board but I'd love someone to honestly defend Dean's comments on this issue…I'd like to understand it better.
Howard Dean's comments on the toxicity of social media ring true to me, as does his comments about face-to-face contact.
The rest… not so much.
What was Dean doing on that stage anyway? I would have preferred someone with intelligent arguments to debate the side he took instead of his lame comments.
The gray haired gentleman does not understand what motivated Trump supporters at all. He wasn’t the default candidate, he was the BEST and preferred candidate.
Oh ny – these students really express themselves poorly – agonizing to listen to all this waffle. 🙁
This delusional cunt Heather did not answer any question former governor posed rather she went on to vomit her own narrative which is far from the reality
You know I really like Professor Steven Pinker, but he talks a lot about human rights and he talks something about freedom of rights which is technically not very precise in the domain of the human rights law
Psychologists also like to talk about economy and its relation with human rights without reasoning or causal relationships explained.
Pinker shines here as usual. Dean's use of 'scatological' to describe Damore's memo is telling more of Dean's understanding than Damore's.
Engage the ideas, don't label or denigrate them.