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39 thoughts on “Joe Rogan – Capitalism vs Socialism with Steven Pinker”

  1. "They use their phones to criticize capitalism!"
    I've never quite liked that argument.

    Is it wrong that black slaves used their owners' tools to rebel against them? Is it wrong that oppressive feudal lords where killed with their own tools? Under plans devised in their own land? Or does my analogy not stand?
    IDK. I'm not defending communism/socialism but I don't find it hypocritical to express your ideological views in current societal means even if those means are product of opposite views, I find it necessary, and ironic too, but not hypocritical.

    Maybe I'm wrong but that argument has always smell fishy to me.

  2. The idea that people are creative and strive for success because they want to get rich is very misguided. Certainly, many people in many fields get rich because they are successful, but the goal is not to get rich, it's to excel in one's field. Academics, movie directors, architects, musicians, the list can go on and on. People want success and prestige in their field. If that comes with wealth as a reward, then great. But if everyone is provided with enough money to eat, have an education, and affordable healthcare, there is no reason to think this will stifle the human drive to create and be successful across a huge variety of endeavors. Steve jobs didn't create the iPhone out of fear of going hungry, he didn't even do it because he wanted to get rich, wealth was just an outcome of his passion.

  6. Love you guys but you are repeating the same fallacies you are using as examples.
    "Communism snuffs individual achievements" Um, no. There are 1.5 million millionaires in China and their free market is exploding.
    "People talking about how capitalism sucks on an iPhone doesn't make sense" Yeeeah, iPhone parts are made in Mongolia, China, Korea and Taiwan.
    American capitalism literally relies on communist labor and suppliers to exist, therefor proving it could not sustain itself. 300 million Walmart shoppers fearing communism and socialism is laughable.

  8. Joe mentions the irony of talking about how capitalism sucks on an iPhone yet funding for innovation leading to the creation of several of the essential features of the iPhone came from the US government…

  9. I prefer capitalism to Marxism. As Bakunin pointed out, Marxism will always wind up as dictatorships; and that has always occurred so far as I've seen. I think he was right here, what we need is balance. Basic socialism was originally just a movement to improve working conditions for working people. To get rid of child labor, over crowded living condition due lack of a living wages, and the general despair of poverty. It absolutely had no designs of taking over the entire means of production, control of workers, and of the government. Marxism is a perversion of socialism. Better pay, safe working conditions, sharing in profits or co-ops are more in line with what socialism was originally intended.

  12. I cant believe people contribute an iphone, or any technology at all for that matter, to capitalism. ALL OF THE GIZMOS WE HAVE are from the industrial revolution brought on by the discovery of OIL! capitalism just happened to be the system in place at the time. If an iphone was the result of capitalism, then why didnt we have iphones back in the 1500s?

  16. It is interesting that an academic like Pinker so clearly displays an emotional-ideological adherence to free market fundamentalism and the status quo. He also is entirely ignorant what actually existing capitalism is and clearly has little to no understanding as to what libertarian socialist and anarchists are working towards. Pinker should really try and study some political science and political-economy.

  17. Has Rogan ever had an actual Marxist Historian on his podcast? Gets tiring just seeing Centrists and Centre Right leaning people on repeating the same things over and over again.

  19. The problem is governments have redistributed the wealth, pension contributions. In doing that they have no assets, no wealth to pay the pensions which are owed. That's negative wealth.

  20. Technology isn’t worth the malaise of living under capitalism. I’d rather be free and without an iPhone, than have my salary stolen with an iPhone.

  21. I think it's a testament to how far we've come that we can support people that voluntarily contribute nothing to the tribe. Couldn't do that in any other empire outside the last 500 or so years

  22. Socialism is about uniting workers and giving workers power through democratic means. If you want a good explanation of socialist theory check out Richard Wolff. I would love for Joe to have him on to give some balance to his majority right wing guests.

  24. It's so silly. A "distributed" system, if it achieves a given set of (i.e. commonly desirable) ends is just as much based on principles as a centralized one.

  26. There is a myth of progress at play here. Where I think Joe to a greater extent and Steven to a lesser extent might think that human evolution is purpose driven and has an end or a goal insight. That idea has been proven to be wrong on all accounts. The purpose that drives anything is indefinable in so far that it has a category. Whatever is at any given time is pressure and chaos with our view superimposed on that *is*. That capitalism or socialism are better suited for whatever drives human purpose is irrelevant because it could literally be anything in any given moment. A more important question would be, how do we ease or reduce unnecessary human suffering? Especially if it can be traced back to a human source.

  30. Socialism has proven to work extremely well in Canada,Sweden etc. There is still Capitalism, however people in all social classes get help.

  31. In the USA when a teacher with health coverge gets a serious illness such as Cancer, they don't get healthcare. Thats a very serious fact that you can't ignore. In Canada even the poorest person who gets sick will get great healthcare. Socialism is also proven to build and improve the economy.

  34. This is why Justice Democrats, like Bernie Sanders, Jeremey Corbyn & Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez are Democratic Socialists: They want a mixed economy. Private corporations produce products for private consumptions and public government take care of postal service, infrastructure, prison system, social welfare and so on.

  35. my theory (at least for the US) is that anti-capitalist intellectuals remember back when they were in public school and all the "haves" (football quarterbacks, cheerleaders….etc.) treated the "have nots" (i.e., them) so badly. This leads them to be basically against anything that is supported or advanced or considered important by "the system." Continually denigrating and ridiculing the values of the "haves" is a way to get revenge.

    I have never heard of Pinker's argument about disseminated vs concentrated knowledge. I will have to think about it.

  37. There is a lot here that Ben Shapiro and even Jordan Peterson don't understand (or they have a political agenda). Another problem is that a lot of Americans think that Socialism is the opposite of Capitalism. Like the question of Joe Rogan about people saying how bad capitalism is using an iPhone. That's just not true, Communism is the opposite of Capitalism but you can totally have Capitalism and Socialism together.

  39. Millions of people flee for westerns democracy. Nobody flees the west for socialism/communism.

    Communism leads to scarcity of resources while capitalism creates an abundance.

    Waste isn’t good but the US throws away more food than Venezuela consumes. That was created by a free market society.

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