Closer To Truth
How to explain our inner awareness that is at once most common and most mysterious? Traditional explanations focus at the level of neuron and neuronal circuits in the brain. But little real progress has motivated some to look much deeper, into the laws of physics — information theory, quantum mechanics, even postulating new laws of physics.
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Max Tegmark is Professor of Physics at Massachusetts Institute of Technology. He holds a BS in Physics and a BA in Economics from the Royal Institute of Technology in Sweden. He also earned a MA and PhD in physics from University of California, Berkeley.
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Closer to Truth presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
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Every time I talk about my head, I will refer to it as my "quark blob". Ty for that, Max ;p
Thank you for another interesting discussion. I love these discussions on consciousness. Here's my question. Is it a "hard problem" that animals in motion can see where they're going? Or does it only become a hard problem when we can remember and think about and report what we've seen? If we assume that consciousness is a thing of an incomprehensible substance, and a cause that works in mysterious ways, haven't we made it already into a "hard problem"? It's clearly not a hard problem for Nature, because animals do see where they're going and adjust their paths, and I can remember and report on and use language to describe and to think about what I've seen. That's not a hard problem for self awareness (accessing memory, using language to describe, etc.) – it's a hard problem for a consciousness that's a thing which operates as a cause. That is a hard problem, I suggest, only because it doesn't exist.
Max is an animal of another caliber. True inspiration
DOH !
Quantum Physics tells you the observer is not quantum mechanical ⚙️in nature. You need an entirely new branch of physics to describe consciousness.
Many thanks! A very important and interesting topic and interview.
But first metaphysics and mathematics, and only then physics …
In order to solve the "hard problem of consciousness", it is first necessary to solve the super hard problem of justification (basification, substantiation) of mathematics, and therefore knowledge in general. For this, it is necessary to look at the Universe as an eternal holistic process of generation of new meanings and structures, and build a primordial generative structure. And only then can the ontological status of consciousness be established.
Meaning is unconditional foundation of being.(Hegel)
Consciousness is an absolute attractor of meanings. Consciousness is a qualitative vector quantity. Consciousness is an cognitive process of "grasping" of meanings.
Conclusion: Consciousness is an univalent phenomenon of ontological (structural, cosmic) memory, shown at the certain level of the Universe being.Ontological memory is the soul of matter ", its measure.
Haha, there is an organizing principal that could distinguish between that which is conscious and that which is not. Only living things are conscious, so first figure out the physics of life.
They will come kicking and screaming into eastern philosophy
He said 'how information feels' which would make 'information' a thing, the thing that feels..
If you think, as most modern scientists do, that consciousness is somehow byproduct of random patricles which evolves through laws of quantum mechanics and natural selection and there is not much more to it,i would ask how it is possible that if fundamental reallity,which in view of quantum mechanics say that there is only wave of probabilities,how can something which is only posibilty give rise to something real as atoms and mater neverthless consciousness itself?could it be that it is other way around? it seems to me that if you really believe in quantum mechanic you would need to admit that there are no atoms at all,it is all mathematical construct we use.when you come down to it,atoms are made of nucleus and electrons and those of smaller and smaller particles,but last step they say so far is way of probability,so there are no atoms as little things or points of mater at all. But probability is mathematical construct and abstraction which can be used for calculation but it is not real thing as such.and without conscious observer that probability would never be realized. so it must be that consciousnes is much more important then they would love to admit
Good
Particles of physical brain have conscious awareness of matter from quantum wave function (free will).
Consciousness programs mind from the physical brain which is designed and develops from DNA. The particles of physical brain which are from and have free will from quantum wave function have conscious awareness when the free will from quantum wave function interacts with conscious programming of brain. Best can come up with so far.
what if consciousness is as described in the vedas/upanishads; best allegorized by beams of light from our sun. then, instead of looking for formulas to distinguish between an on/off, yes/no, if/then, we might do better to search for points along a spectrum of consciousness, the apex (knowable) of which is represented by the human being–at least, according to Schopenhauer.
incidentally, there's a huge tell towards the end of the interview where M.T. says something like: "…instead of just a philosophical discussion, [it could be used for] something useful." he then goes on to describe a potential medical devise for determining human consciousness, etc., making his strictly materialist, hyper-rationalist humanist bias unequivocal.
imo, it is precisely this myopic limitation that prevents human cognitive development towards solutions to problems such as the unifying theory. further, i believe this seemingly self-imposed limitation reflects an agenda which sacrifices inspiration and open-mindedness to the one-sided, all-holy principle of falsification, this in the face of a commonly accepted probabilistic universe.
based on that universe's universal principle of exploitation, we must assume that all entities suppress one another for an advantage, and therefore should reasonably assume humankind to be no different. immediate tendency to debunk=denial=falsification.
that the human mind carries the potential for non-local function and perception is part of the basis for the same medical tech. which M.T. himself alludes to as an apparent pinnacle of scientific achievement, ie, placebo affect=35-40% of all drug efficacy (vaccines included).
C.G. Jung, nearly a century ago, stated that anyone still in doubt of human prescient ability is simply ignorant of science. could it be that all our technology has actually been unwittingly designed to make humankind more ignorant, in the literal sense, more prone to disregard certain potential pathways of discovery and enlightenment which have historically bore fruits such as the secret to the atomic structure of carbon?
and that's just one we know about. couldn't it also be that there is someone or something out there that doesn't want humans breaking the boundaries of understanding space time?
My favorite untested theory is Gaia – is there a collective "life field" around the earth that enables life to function as we know it. If so that field could change over time, so if you could travel back in time 100 million years, you body may not be adapted to the field as it existed then, and things might go wrong with you. Similarly if you go to the Moon or Mars for extended periods of time, we actually can't know whether your body will keep functioning. We can't go back in time, but soon we may be able to go to Mars. I understand modern science will deny any such field, which means the worry is irrational, but until we actually try, we don't know. Matt Damon grew potatoes on Mars in "The Martian", but will they really grow? Maybe we should find out BEFORE we send humans!
“We’ve tried avoid talking about what an observer is even though physics is supposed to be the subject of observation.”
Consciousness is beyond material view. It's purely field. We are at most fundamental level field excitation of consciousness
How come human beings can talk to themselves without the need to use their tongues.. or are tongues just for taste only..
Based on numerous documented NDE experiences, we know that consciousness exists outside the physical body. For example, some people were clinically dead, but were able to see events both inside and outside the operating room. Without consciousness, there is no experience. And without experience, there is no physics. Insofar as advanced AI is concerned, if it is sufficiently advanced, then consciousness may elect to inhabit that AI, the same as a human body. Then the AI would be "living."
Every creature in the cosmos will be survival and continuation oriented creatures or expressions I say expressions because we are created through elaboration from matter. Survival and continuation of form is historically important and relevant without it reproduction would not ensue not love nor consciousness nor death. Without survival and the continuum of fight you have no story to tell. Survival fights but true survival has no need to fight rubbish fights.
Survival is slave to nothing but it provides the opportunity for all other expressions to manifest especially with regards to ( us)
You cannot have intelligence without first survival as paramount fundamental expression. Consciousness is survival in mind from the first thought extension introduced by nature itself.
Basically consciousness is survival in mind.
Consciousness is survival elaborated into existence through the brain through the process of survival and continuation of form. Survivals tentacles exist throughout the cosmos and infect everything it contacts because it’s in the fabric of reality and is trajectory. It is historically important and relevant for survival this consciousness is an extension or elaborate construct of survival or the fabric of reality to make sure you don’t die. The mystery is in the universe itself it’s nat or continuation or continuum and in jest everything within the confines of its talemontry
You need survival as a first protocol for the observation to be relevant otherwise without survival you have no intelligence. All creatures in the cosmos are survival or continuation relevant expressions the higher the intelligence the more survival relevant the creatures are and the higher capacity for living or creation.
The observer is relevant because you need survival to be relevant for the observer to be relevant as without survival or continuation of form the observation is nullified. I guess this is where intelligence matters and an increased consciousness or awareness.
All planet creatures are survival or continuation relevant expressions and you have to ask the questions where does this expression come from where are it’s historical roots and are all entities expressions or constituents survival or continuation relevant forms of matter or does one have to be created into that survival relevant expression or creature. You cannot have consciousness without survival relevance or continuation relevant expressions as a first protocol or priority this includes intelligence. All elaborations all extensions or expressions are reflections of survival or continuation of substance or form including consciousness reproduction and language or communication. Consciousness is survival in mind reproduction is survival in flesh language is survival in thought expressed via noise through consciousness.
The question remains what was the first original thought extension of consciousness where did it come from and which creature in historical reality was the first entity to hold such thoughts? Was the first original thought extension of survival relevance or was the first thought what am I why am I here?
I’d suggest the first thought was survival oriented or relevant which proceeds action with an accumulator expression or effect action related.
The universe itself is a continuum or survival oriented or relevant expression all matter all constituents either contribute or play a direct role in expressing the continuum or continuation or survival relevant expressions. I believe it is consciousness maturity and intelligence that can transform our existence and experience or may provide greater longevity with regards to survival and in this pursuit of survival we will grow into more survival oriented or relevant expressions or creatures. And so the story continues.
Physics does no consciousness. The consciousness system which our „player“ is part from does all the physics ( because just ruleset) the avatar ( ergo our body) and the virtual cosmos.
Our body is just a physical constraint of this VR. Without it our decisions would have no impact. We are here to make good decisions thats our evolutionary goal. But the rules are not to be believed. They can be worked out in the frame of our player, by ourself in Meditation state. Believing the ruleset is not an evolutionary goal. You cant work on your ego/fear and beliefs (entropy) intellectually.
This virtual Reality is an ongoing entropy reduction trainer for the consciousness system which we are part from. Our success is the success of the system.
As consciousness is an information system it has to work against information entropy ( fear/ego standing for „chaos“) towards selflessness = love“ = „order“
Love = One of the most misunderstood metaphors right after „son of god“ (did i mention that we are all are part of the system) its not a privilege as religious people still believe blindly. Love has nothing to do with desire. Unconditional love = being of service without ego. Thats why we can learn to love everyone, not just our partners.
PS:
Consciousness = nonlocal (and nothing between our virtual ears) thats why we make no progress in consciousness research. Our model of reality is wrong, fundamentally. As long Newton’s aged approach on reality is still dogmatically believed there will be no real progress in science.
Consciousness. Amazing!
Amazing is the emergence of the biggest ideas in the universe, from a mindscape of quantum fields, in a functioning brain, self-assembled from the standard model of reality.
Emergent complexity that strives to understand the complexity of self… and others… and all else!
Such beauty when used wisely. CERN fMRI
Yet such destructiveness when bathed in ignorance…
“There is no scientific study more vital to man than the study of his own brain. Our entire view of the universe depends on it.”
― Francis Crick
When the blind talk about colors