UCD – University College Dublin
Abstract: We know that creatures like us have two separate systems for processing information, the genome and the brain. We know that the genome is digital, and we can accurately transcribe our genomes onto digital machines. We cannot transcribe our brains, and the processing of information in our brains is still a great mystery. I will be talking about real brains and real people, asking a question that will have practical consequences when we are able to answer it. I am not able to answer it now. All I can do is to examine the evidence and explain why I consider it probable that the answer will be that brains are analog.
Prof Freeman Dyson | “Are Brains Analogue or Digital?” | 19th May 2014 – Dublin Institute for Advanced Studies, Statutory Public Lecture of the School of Theoretical Physics, in association with the UCD School of Physics.
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I have always thought brains are sampled and thus digital. As we age the sample rate is slower and that is why time seems to pass more quickly – there are larger conscious gaps between samples.
Brains are organic
We lost two great minds this year. Dyson passed away on February 28, 2020 after a fall. We also lost Conway from COVID. 2020 has been a horrible year all around on so many levels.
This was just retarded.
is it really possible that Neural networks and machine learnings in 2014 where so underdeveloped that even Dyson cannot see what was coming? And to think that all these new technologies are basically cutting-edge applications of statistical mathematics it is ironic how much unaware he was of this recent development
One would think people at a university would know how to spell university.
His point about the LHC being limited seems more a hardware limitation- declaring the overwhelming majority of the data stream "uninteresting" is as much the problem as the bias towards analyzing only germane data concerning verification of prediction.
It appears that certain "large brains", instead of dealing with social problems, are more interested in creating social problems!
Superficial society isn't interested in wisdom.
Nice tie. Great lecture. Deserves many more views than a meager 546.
Excellent.
The Brain is MOST PROBABLY BOTH analogue and digital…. Physically is certainly is, so operationally is probably is too… If you believe in an ultimately fundamental granular, discrete subspace of +ve charge quanta (cells) in an ethereal sea of -ve charge it is also both… Who is to say DNA, RNA, other polymer strands and microtubules do not store inherited and learned memory digitally… Sure, the wishy-washy analogue nature of firing neuron synapsis is analogue and relative to other factors but that's only part of the story. There are nowhere near enough neurons to store the amount of info we hold, from high level info, to images, sound and touch to complex body operation manouvers… I should imagine digital data is retrieved for use by the neuronal, (sub)conscious systme…..
The most compact but naturally scalable and efficient computer architecture has processing nodes linked by strands that double as digital storage… I like the idea of a processor group consisting of each processor joined to every processor, with all pair combinations sharing memory in their connection… The amount of memory scales well as you add more processors with an each-to-every network in this system. You can never have enough memory…..
This man was over 90 years old giving this talk. Absolutely amazing. May we all have so much mind left at ninety.
Professor Dyson, RIP.
RIP sir.
That Guy is Thicker than a Box of Rocks !!!!!
How has he got the Audacity to Lecture Anyone when he thinks the Earth is Millions of Years Old and we Evolved from Tadpoles , Seriously ?
You can tell he is Godless , an empty shell of a Person , very Sad
When Mr Dyson cannot get the term "Digital" correct, I can't continue watching…..
People use the term "Addiction" without understanding the definition, it is just one of countless examples.
Ignorant people just make it up as they go, I hope there are other civilizations elsewhere in the Universe, because just thinking that Humans are the most intelligent creatures of all time makes me sad.
That was the greatest gift someone I’ve never personally met yet I know so well, ever gave me. Bravo Sir, Bravo 🙃 who’s the say that the north pole is the top that’s kind of where I started.
Song was form of attracting the mate from a distance
A philosopher in Science
7:40 I had that very discussion with my old Electrical Engineering professor, mentor, long time acquaintance and friend … 30 years ago. I took the position that the future was analogue; not analogue in the sense of the 1960's or before, but in the sense of the brain itself; and that the future lay with machine learning and neural nets, which are tools that are fundamentally analogue (even when digitally — and thus inefficiently — implemented in software) for implementing what in computer science are called "oracles". What's noteworthy is the failure of Dyson to notice or point this out (in fact, it was one of von Neumann's major issues in his paper on automata!) and its close connection to Renormalization Group methodology (something presaged by Hofstadter in Goedel-Escher-Bach) … which seems to be a blind spot in Dyson's works in Physics, as well.
Much of what was discussed later here in the "failure of AI" has , in fact, been realized by Deep Learning networks; the assessment of Dyson being a bit premature, the examples cited now being the largest successes of the recent surge in AI 2015-onward. The deep learning network that beats top-notch players in the game of Go (once considered to be an intractible problem for traditional problem-solving AI) is filling the very gap that "dynamic quantum clustering" fills.
There already is plenty of room in the field of computation theory to account for all of this — the concept of an Oracle: an abstract machine that embodies a computational problem without limitation on complexity (i.e. they need not be algorithmic). In effect, this is what a Deep Learning network provides an (incomplete) implementation of; much as "von Neumann" digital machine provides a (likewise incomplete) implementation of abstract machines in for types 0, 1 and 2 in the Chomsky Hierarchy; even though strictly speaking only finite state machines can be physically realized in full by any means (digital or analogue). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_machine
37:30 analog computers more powerful than digital
26:43 recog of pattern maps vis in space-time+sound/time
I AM A COMMENT!🔥🔰-ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ-🗡💜!✨(ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ⚡! A COMMENT, THEREFORE I AM! I AM NOT A DIGITAL! I COME FROM A HUMAN BEAN!
Better question: does it matter which they are?
At 44:44 Dyson discusses the possibility which he believes Feynman first suggested that parts of the brain might operate as analog computers. The idea is that the brain may pick up on the quantum information carried by molecules or waves and amplify such information including its unpredictability in order to present the brain with options from which an executive decision can be made in pursuit of free will. The unrecognized brilliance of Otto Warmbier's decision to offer a fake confession is that it allowed him to single-handedly negotiate a press conference while held captive. It was not only his plea for help which would be amplified to a large audience but also the media in attendance would capture other sights and sounds inside the room such as the face of the Korean man officiating over the event as well as capturing the journalists faces in the room, especially those close to him. All of these things provided a treasure trove of information which a savvy State Department could have and should have used to make executive decisions which should have led to Otto's release. In other words, in a more conscious, compassionate and competent administration the exercise of free will by means of the brain's amplification of the data, the clues Otto single-handedly brought to the table would have resulted in his freedom as opposed to his death. Dyson credits Marvin Weinstein's idea of Quantum Dynamic Clustering as a means of parsing through significant volumes of information to find the useful nuggets. Each observer will bring his own unique set of experiences with which to analyze and solve a problem. From the case study of Otto Warmbier and an ESL teacher who lived for 7 years in Japan running a language school, emerged 935-QKK, It is a regenerative model of space and time demonstrating that significant patterns can be observed leading to greater mirroring and amplification of essential data. This essential data can be used to increase compassion and reciprocity.
A side note: It was Hameroff and Penrose who theorized almost 25 years ago that the molecular structures in the brain from which quantum processes originate are the microtubules. They also hypothesized that such quantum processes may give rise to human consciousness, and that idea sends sublime chills down my spine: https://resonance.is/confirmation-quantum-resonance-brain-microtubules/.
Fascinating profound thought. Many may not realise that what they call a digital computer is actually a simulation built on an analogue substrate. Nobody has made a transistor that changes from off to on without spending some time in transition, where most power is dissipated. Typically a clock is imposed to ignore the confusion of these analogue transitions and provide a digital abstraction layer. A rough analogy would be the suppression of static between radio stations, the output being cut for weak signals, offering you perhaps 10 discrete stations. Convenient, but don't imagine that the continuous analogue domain between them doesn't exist.
Are you kidding me? Dyson is a great guy but an hour of from Reading off of a paper is ridiculous! The whole point of a lectures to personalize a subject and make it interesting, not to watch somebody read words off of a paper for an hour. Whoever came up with this idea should be shot.
Digital or analogue. It's seems to be for me ,a matter of interpretation ,rather than nature of it.
Can i use analogue calculators to avoid big taxes 😀 ?
Star Trek Next Gen Season 6 episode 4 RELICS Scotty is trapped in a Dyson Sphere!
HOOHAH!
Great lecture, I feel privileged to have the opportunity to hear this genius. Prof. Dyson, maybe be right about the brain being analoge!
Prof Dyson I agree up to the point where we say that primates who utilize "Songs with meaning" are not just using language. You need to explain the emergence of language better.
Good discussion on digital vs analogue around AI among other things, but crap Dyson is a brilliant and it's just a great listen. Should have FAR more views.
Freeman Dyson is like coffee to me. Love this skinny old genius.
The Pour-El-Richards theorem seems totally academic, since we do not actually seem to live in a classical universe with continuum fields. It might be great for analogue entities living in a universe without quantum mechanics, but then would they perhaps lack free will? So then who can tell me that the power of analogue machines is really so hot?
Suddenly it seems I find a rash of Freeman Dyson youtube clips. Thanks to everyone who s uploading them.
If your looking for the needle it sounds like an important new use for big data … however most understand trends etc. that are currently being mined. This video in part is basically talking about noise filtering which is used in all manner of devices from radios to cameras….in some applications it's called DSP …. digital signal processing….digital computers also just happen to be very good at pattern matching in other ways…..a very useful function can be seen in identifications systems that match large groups of finger prints and faces very quickly using digital mapping technics