Closer To Truth
Donald Hoffman discusses the nature of reality, what is real, his theory of consciousness, and how this theory affects everything from artificial intelligence to alien life and the Fermi Paradox.
Donald Hoffman’s Website: http://www.cogsci.uci.edu/~ddhoff/
Follow Donald Hoffman on Twitter @donalddhoffman
Donald D. Hoffman is Professor of Cognitive Science, University of California, Irvine and author of Visual Intelligence: How We Create What We See and coauthor of Observer Mechanics: A Formal Theory Of Perception.
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Closer to Truth presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
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There is a quite simple and straightforward way to understand that the perceivable physical world is no more real than a computer generated virtual reality, and that the only thing that is really real is the consciousness that perceives that world, which is really not-a-thing. In Zen, consciousness is called the No-thing, which is the only thing that is really real. The world is no more real than a computer generated virtual reality game that plays for the amusement of the spiritual presence of consciousness that plays the game. The fundamental scientific principle of modern physics that explains this peculiar state of affairs is called the holographic principle of quantum gravity. For a totally consistent scientific discussion of this state of affairs see:
https://scienceandnonduality.files.wordpress.com/2020/10/the-mystery-of-creation-2.pdf
https://scienceandnonduality.files.wordpress.com/2020/09/what-is-real-1.pdf
https://scienceandnonduality.files.wordpress.com/2020/10/what-does-dylans-all-along-the-watchtower-really-mean-4.pdf
He's the hardest guy to understand! lol. But yeah, very interesting.
I don't see anything brilliant here. Hoffman confuses "interface" with "abstraction", "video game icon vs reality" with "composition vs part", and ignores the fact that those who survive give very high weight to fitness functions which benefit their survival, which is why they survive.- others die. And the network of conscious agents is a waste of time; even if he creates a consistent mathematical model that could give raise to both quantum mechanics and general theory of relativity, he would need some evidence to confirm the theory. The best we know at the moment is that our brain is the only conscious agent that exist. What motivated him to assume otherwise?
I'm trying to imagine the kinds of technology that can come out of this research–not in terms of what they'll do, but in terms of what they'll look like. I guess it'll be up to us what it looks like. We'll go up a few rungs on the Kardeshev scale.
Love Donald Hoffman!!
"Nothing in spacetime has any causal ability" love it!
Hoffman's theory is very logical when you just sit down and think about it. It makes so much sense. How could any experience at all be embedded into reality in the way we're naively intuiting? Experience of smell, sight, touch, anything at all? These are all qualia. Every measurement of reality we ever made is measuring qualia. It is perfectly logical that reality doesn't look like anything at all because there's no such thing as appearance within reality. It's not a parameter that exists independently of someone's visual cortex. It's just one way to interpret reality, just like sound is another.
These ways of interpreting reality are incredibly useful, for sure, and they're profoundly complex and advanced – but we're being fooled by their complexity into thinking they actually are reality.
They sure do describe reality in some way, but they're as similar to reality as a written story is similar to a story really happening in the present moment. As similar as the nature of a spoken word is similar to the nature of the written word. Not similar at all. If there is such a thing as consensus reality at all, because perhaps this is all reality is – qualia based on magic we will never be able to scientifically explain.
I am glad that Donald Hoffman has finally appeared on this channel because he seems to be one of the most important thinkers in advancing the science of consciousness. His analogies suggest to me that there are different ways of visualizing the world that have different fitness values in different contexts: an economist will perceive the world in terms of consumers and producers, goods and raw materials; whereas, an environmentalist perceives the world in terms of sustainability, energy balance, cycles, niches, equilibrium, and population growth; similarly, a physicist views the world in terms of dimensions, fields, charges, wavefunctions, particles, forces, motion, energy and other concepts. Many seem to have reified the physicist's models of reality as the most fundamental or superior, but really none of these models can be said to be more "correct" than the others or have more fitness value than the others without knowing the context; which way of perceiving of reality has the most fitness value depends upon the niche (profession) available to and selected by an individual in society.
Indeed, this analogy suggests that to me that there is no ultimate reality, but only different ways of perceiving of reality, which have different scopes of applicability. What seems true is that some models will give more accurate predictions within their domain of applicability than others. Furthermore, fast and accurate predictions undeniably have survival value. "Truth" is a correspondence between one's model of reality and reality within the scope of applicability. What is true may not be unique; two entirely different models may give equally accurate predictions, so neither could be said to be more true than the other, but only that they are different perspectives about reality.
Both Hoffman and the host seem to have a quixotic dream that we will find an ultimate universal truth, but while certain mental models may be discarded as categorically inferior to others; a number of different models may have similar survival value in terms of their computational efficiency or their accuracy. Often, I find it very useful to perceive of problems in a variety of different ways and I am indebted to those mystics, philosophers and scientists who articulate alternative ways of viewing reality, whenever those ways of perception have some predictive accuracy or explanatory power.
Holy fuck… That ending
Hello m'y friands, Weldom in voice of newage on reflexion to using Homo sapiens sapiens capacitys whith news technologies merci beaucoup pour l'invitation et l'ouverture des portes ouvertes de l'inconscient collectif et beaucoup d'autres choses encore frédéo freedoom fédo Fado crédo cool a Venir bisous
Started following Dr. Hoffman bout 2 years ago. He reminds me of a Super-dooper Robert Anton Wilson in his "aidingness" in our Quest.
Great interview.
13:13 sudden veganism
I wonder what the truth of the nature of reality is really like
Donald Hoffman has given me huge food for thought with his theory, wether it be correct or not
There is more than enough science evidence about reality to confirm that an inteligence created our sensors given imformation is being decoded by them, the brain …… or us
Human beings cognitive functions are not yet evolved enough to understand the true nature of reality. Our curious nature feeds our evolution, Closer to Truth fascinates my layman's imagination great series.
awesome piece
Finally got my google settings to allow me to make a comment😏😣 Anyhow…. I’ve been following DH for a few years now and have read many of his papers. I love his approach and presentational style. I think that he’s really onto something and his ideas are for me mind-blowing. This latest video is excellent and gets into more details than some of his earlier ones, which for seasoned followers like me is a bonus. I’m less wedded to his conscious agent theory, but his interface theory of perception is plenty to consider for me and at it’s roots, deeply profound. I struggle to get my head around a few of the concepts. If one could remove our 3D space-time VR headset to reveal “X”, how would we know this was true reality and not the projection of some other VR headset? It could be “headsets all the way down”! Thus while I am happy to accept that what we experience is a representation from our “brain” (this seems to be increasingly mainstream science view), I’m not sure we will ever be able to experience veridical reality. And even if we ever did how would we ever know for sure. It also must be possible that evolution doesn’t function the same in the real world as we understand it in the 3D space time world, which challenges his dependence on evolution game theory. What also keeps me us at night is the notion that we / scientists are using our “brain” to show that our brain is in essence making up reality – trapped inside a skull fed only by electrical impulses. Indeed according to DH our brain itself is only a representation of some thing else in the veridical reality. If we cannot rely on our brain for accuracy, then we’re rather stuck. Finally, in DHs interface world I’m never sure where “the past” fits in? Thinking of a dinosaur bone say, this is but an icon, but for what, if time isn’t real? And all the records we have of historical events, these too are icons in our VR game, but how do they relate to the veridical world? Plenty to meditate upon and looking forward to DH’s next offering.
Donald is my man.very humble and his analysis i respect alot.🙂
The absurdity here is that the whole tower Donald Hoffman builds is its own refutation.
The Bible 'book' = a compendium of fire side tales and fables,
recounted orally ,
for generations by goat herders and primitive tribes from the stone age,
until writing was invented,
and then, many different sources, transliterations, and versions were copied and written down..
''The Bible was created during a time where stories were verbally passed down over hundreds of years.
Stories constantly morphed and changed over time, and the Bible is a collection of these.
This is why it has the nearly identical flood story from Gilgamesh, and why Jesus has the same characteristics as Dionysus, Osiris, Horus, Mithra, and Krishna.
The contradictions and immorality in the stories are not evidence that God is flawed or evil,
but rather that humans invented him, just like the thousands of other gods that we used to, but no longer believe in.''
..and to answer the questions of the many fears and mysteries of our universe, like 'thunder' and earthquakes, since there was no science yet.
That was the old Testament…
The new Testes is also hearsay since these letters, 'gospels' and stories were written by the loyal faithful, the camp followers,
not by objective historians at that particular time,
or by any contemporary writers,
and these tales were written many years after the supposed events of this mythical Jesus.
There is essentially very little evidence of a Jesus in real documented history.
A couple of spurious Roman reports, and all the rest anecdotal.
…but more importantly …a jesus' existence is not an issue!
A jesus is irrelevant without a god !
Then, many of these stories, but not all, as many were not chosen,
[ There are more than just four Gospels but only these four were agreed on ],
were compiled for one self-absorbed converted Roman Emperor in his Nicean Council,
for his expressed purpose of conquest
and
control of the people of Europe for his Holy Roman Empire.
He recognised that this was the perfect religion/mythology for the future domination of the populaces.
Half of the stories were ignored by the Nicean Bishops and none have been proven to be based on fact.
This 'Bable' book is backed up by absolutely no facts and no evidence.
It is not proof for any god(s) ….(or of any jesus as a god…)
The fables are intertwined within historical places and people…
eg Egypt and the Pharaohs existed,
whereas Moses and the Exodus did not happen…!
It is a historical novel
…. ie A book of fiction….
Only!
The Bible book is proof of a book … ONLY (certainly not evidence of any gods…)
PROVE a god!
55:49
… oh, so you want to do that? it's easy : fast a lot, meditate a lot and, here's the key, wholeheartedly focus on one single of those invisible conscious agents…. sleep depravation works too. It's been there as old as the beginning of time, any Lama monk would agree. My experience is that if you take the easy way (DMT and all that shit) you get a certain kind of agent, but if you go the hard way (fasting, prayer, meditation…) you get another kind of "contact" of a totally different quality… power of e-quality…. by the way, this channel is like the most intelligent channel I've ever come thru in YT… congratulations and thank you the amazing work you are doing, this world needs it!
so he assumes mathematics exist (because he needs it to test the theory) beyond his personal perception but nothing else? Seems arbitrary. So can we see beyond our "head set" or can we not?
Because what one really has to say in this theory seems to be "nothing we perceive exists. At all!", so there is no way to test anything beyond our head set. I wonder how this approach can lead to anything.
we are incapable of seeing the reality bc evolution made us this way
His video game analogy for payoff functions and how evolution shapes or minds is breathtaking and profound. Really deep. Love this stuff.
He is so right. You can be awesome at a video game but not have the faintest idea about what the reality is underpinning the video game. The person excelling at the game does not have to have a clue about programming languages and their structures and workings, and how the electronics work. In fact, their knowledge about the game might actually be useless or problematic when it comes to understanding the underlying reality of what makes the game possible.
Awesome stuff.
Robert, such a deeply engaging and intelligent conversation.
Thanks for getting Mr Hoffman on, well over due.
What would really be perhaps an even more fascinating conversation,
getting Donald and Bernardo Kastrup in the same room!
Have you interviewed Bernardo Kastrup yet?
I've seen Donald Hoffman interviewed several times over the years, and it's always the same conjectures, the same metaphors, etc. Has he made any progress in an effort to confirm his views?
The biggest pay-off function we originally evolved, since our big frontal lobe "step". This intellect giving ability, enabled communications, to make best use of our biological make up. We can now deliver the ultimate virtual instinctive experience. Billions Grooving as One, will create the most powerful and potential moments, to instigate Mother Nature, enough to manifest the miracles, that only she can preform.
Groovism is the belief system we're all endowed with!! http://www.groovism.org; our non-profit's site!! Currently with clips of our dailies & other Grooves. Soon to BE STREAMING 24/7!!!
Hoffman is simply a sophisticated-sounding idealist. Kant wins again.
All of this discussion means that God is there, and that we have to recognize that and worship Him and Him alone.
I have a macular hole in my right eye which makes me see out of that eye wavy lines instead of straight lines because the macula is the part of the eye that makes us see straight lines so I say my left eye is in the 3D World in my right eye is in the quantum world. I don't think we can ever really no what the hell reality really is or what the truth of anything really is. People have been trying to figure it out for hundreds and thousands of years and nobody's been able to do it
Mankind searches the deeper truth, the objective structural reality. 'Tao' is its name in eastern culture and 'God' is it in western culture. Most of us call it 'Mind'. Don merely changed its label to 'conscious agent'. Could I call 'Tao' and 'God' as 'Mind's agent'? Anyone can give 'it' a nick name!
Huh, but not Wow!?
I like Kuhn's "bias" comment.
With all the respect, Don cannot say there is nothing on the table. There are things under the table and there are countless tables in reality.
Yes, the Mind is a structural reality, the body is also a structural reality. Both are Real.
Consciousness is nothing but an integration of Mind's mental abilities, no mystery about it.
In fact, there is a 'Mind's agent' to construct the Mind's structural reality. Don just don't know it.
What is the Mind structural reality? How does Mind produce mental abilities? How do Mind-body interface? What is the radical way of relate Mind to God? I will tell you later when the fate is blessing.
Awareness is known by awareness alone.
Love Hoffman and the fact he is trying to solve the hard problem of Consciousness. As a nurse I follow the nursing theory: Health as Expanding Consciousness. Which say's the person is Consciousness. This theory function's from an emergence perspective as opposed to reductionist perspective.
The metaphor of the desktop seems flawed. Yes, the desktop and icons separate the user from needing to know the actual complexities of the computer while also being helpful, But only to a point. If we extend this metaphor, we need to include the need of support services, and technical savvy vs complete dependence on an operating system, and viruses, etc. In other words, the desktop and icons are only helpful up to a point — understanding how the computer actually works (aka “reality”) is extremely useful, and what made the computer possible to begin with.
I have no reason to doubt that there is an inaccessible superstructure supporting the universe that we experience; Complete with God as programmer.
The expanding electron does it all. Electron is particle object-physics. Electron expanding is motion,action- metaphysics. Electron found ‘non-spinning ‘ so desktop, icon interface is lacking in relevance. The earth approaches the released object: all motion is relative.
It's same old theory wrapped in shiny new wrapper. Even ancient theistic texts explicitly say that this "reality" is an illusion akin to smoke.
What I want to see in our lifetime is a way to interpret brain activity through scans during sleep to reproduce a dumbed down visual representation of someone's dreams and then use a similar process to find out what is going on during REM sleep that is different from regular dreaming and see if that has a hint behind any other mysteries of the mind or reality and maybe unlock some of the rejuvenative properties of sleep.