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High profile atheist philosopher Daniel C Dennett goes head to head with Christian theologian Keith Ward in this extract from their debate on mind, consciousness and freewill.
In this excerpt Dennett and Ward debate whether we truly have free will.
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First
Free Will is real and an illusion at the same time. Just like the trinity, a wondrous mystery.
God knowing the beginning from the end, the first from the last, has to know what you will do before you do it. Therefore in that sense Free Will is an illusion. However you don't know what you will do and you have agency so in that sense Free Will is real. Then again God is outside of time anyways so are any of us really making decisions? Or is it just one long day waiting for the Lord?
Dumb.
Dennett the leftist cuck atheist
What a stupid question, if there was no food and everyone was starving. And Justin was the only one with food and his family was starving, then you give him a gun. What would happen? That's a real question of will. We are only civilized because of comfort, order and culture. We have an unconscious part of our psyche, that doesn't mean we don't have freewill. I don't know why you would want to think you have no freewill, except to get away with things.
Terrible argument from Dennett
I agree with Denney on this point, because my will is captured and determined by Christ. My "you" is Him. Ultimately I believe in free will, but that will is one with sin or one with Christ; my previous person/soul was one with sin, but now I'm one with Christ.
Dennett is for sure off his rocker.
Free will is restrained by the mutual agreement of free choices. If you decide to shoot the host, then someone may decide to shoot you in the back, by exercising his own free will. You won't like that to happen and therefore you don't want to shoot the host. This, in its entirety, is the reason why we have crime deterring laws.
Dennett says: “ consciousness is an illusion “
It is a self defeating statement.
Just ask : How Are you consciously aware about that?
wards answer ignores the point that was brought up by dennett:
if you aren´t determined (by anything) then that either means that the "me as an agent" also doesn´t determine the "choice" that is being made – so it would be random – or that the "me as an agent" causes the choice to be in a certain way, but the "me as an agent" would ITSELF act randomly.
both has nothing to do with what we call free will.
It’s because of our knowledge of right and wrong.
What does this have to do about Freewill? Anybody can shoot somebody in the arm. Why would they? Well there are consequences but that could be a reward. He's not going to shoot the person because he is not angry to make the choice more easier of hurting another human being. Some people have developed the skill of more self-control and discipline along with compassion. This has little to do with free will and more to do with empathy.
Humans are controlled by instincts.
I can't decide if the randomness of the replies in the comment section supports Dennett's argument or contradicts it.
Daniel Dennett, who is part of the so-called “four horsemen” is abysmal in his argument. This is sophomore.
Santa Clause didn’t make a very good argument here.
Ephesians 2:8-9
The faith in Jesus that saves us is not of ourselves it is the Gift of God.
Romans 9 the whole Chapter Salvation is NOT about him who wills or him who works but on God who calls
God loves Jacob God saved Jacob
God hated Esau God condemned Esau.
God made some for glory AKA HEAVEN
some vessels he prepared beforehand for destruction.AKA HELL
Jesus said there are sheep and there are goats the sheep are on His left and HE gives them Heaven bcuz they're blessed by the Father.
The goats are on his left and he condemns them to hell bcuz they're cursed by The Father. Matthew 25
Jesus says to the Pharisees I came to lay down my life for my sheep and You Don't believe because you are NOT OF MY SHEEP John 10:11&26
I truly believe that God ONLY died for those He chose to save.
These are His sheep who he gives Eternal Life to.
He has mercy on who HE desires and HARDENS who HE desires.
There's Dozens of verses that say that God chooses who He saves and that we don't choose to believe and that we can't believe without God giving us faith. John 6:44,65
There's even bible verses Where God is actively blinding people and hardening people so that they would not believe.John 12:39-40
God even sends strong delusions on some people so that they will believe falsehoods.
2 Thessalonians 2:11
There is no debate there are no arguments just Christians refusing to believe the Bible.
I hope all of you realize this isn't about human reasoning its About Gods words.
Gods words are against human understanding All the time.
Yet Gods words are true even though everyone else is a liar.
Don't trust any human argument against Truth its not good.
There are logical mathematical equations proving 2+2 =3
That doesn't make them true.
God came down here to save us first and foremost He accomplished this on the cross.
But he also came to reveal the mysteries of God with his people.
We shouldn't doubt our loving Savior.
He told us God chooses us for Salvation He told us we can't even Believe in Him without Father Giving us the Faith and The BIBLE says Salvation is NOT about OUR WILLS its about GODS WILL.
SO we should trust Gods true words
I've got a "You", you've just got a brain." Keith Ward 2018. DaniEl "My Judge is Elohim" Dennet – NPC for life!
Why do some souls choose good and others evil? Is it the influence of your genetics and upbringing? Does a God imbue souls with a nature to choose good or evil? You can do what you will but you can't will what you will.
Out of topic but Keith Ward looks really good for 80
It's a terrible argument. Prove you have free will by doing what I told you. The only way to prove free will is not to shoot, but not to shoot means your not willing to prove.
It is a question of volition, not expression Daniel.