Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal
Donald Hoffman, cognitive scientist, and Philip Goff, philosopher, discuss consciousness, evolution, perception, and panpsychism. Insights into the nature of reality.
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 – Intro
02:46 – Goff’s World View
11:39 – Do Neurons Exist?
20:17 – What Is Real?
39:22 – Objections to Hoffman’s Views
44:53 – What is Panpsychism?
58:45 – Evolution
1:37:19 – Reductionism
1:49:38 – Meaning Of Life
2:01:32 – Infinite Consciousness
2:05:40 – Multiverse
2:15:25 – Outro
NOTE: The perspectives expressed by guests don’t necessarily mirror my own. There’s a versicolored arrangement of people on TOE, each harboring distinct viewpoints, as part of my endeavor to understand the perspectives that exist.
THANK YOU: To Mike Duffey for your insight, help, and recommendations on this channel.
– Patreon: https://patreon.com/curtjaimungal (early access to ad-free audio episodes!)
– Crypto: https://tinyurl.com/cryptoTOE
– PayPal: https://tinyurl.com/paypalTOE
– Twitter: https://twitter.com/TOEwithCurt
– Discord Invite: https://discord.com/invite/kBcnfNVwqs
– iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/better-left-unsaid-with-curt-jaimungal/id1521758802
– Pandora: https://pdora.co/33b9lfP
– Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e
– Subreddit r/TheoriesOfEverything: https://reddit.com/r/theoriesofeverything
– TOE Merch: https://tinyurl.com/TOEmerch
LINKS MENTIONED:
– Why? The Purpose of the Universe (Philip Goff): https://amzn.to/3TBXl1M
– The Case Against Reality (Donald Hoffman): https://amzn.to/4airlWu
– Galileo’s Error (Philip Goff): https://amzn.to/482bg5Q
– Consciousness and Fundamental Reality (Philip Goff): https://amzn.to/3RvPKzq
– Mind Chat (Goff’s podcast): https://www.youtube.com/@MindChat
– Podcast w/ Donald Hoffman on TOE: https://youtu.be/CmieNQH7Q4w
– Podcast w/ Daniel Dennett: COMING SOON (Check https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ7ikzmc6zlN6E8KrxcYCWQIHg2tfkqvR )
– Analysis of Matter (Bertrand Russell): https://amzn.to/3GPr1RE
– A Brief History of Time (Stephen Hawking): https://amzn.to/41wH8gn
– Debunking Interface Theory (Geoffrey Bagwell): https://philpapers.org/rec/BAGDIT
– Quantum Bayesianism (Chris Fuchs): https://amzn.to/48nE3la
– Fitness Beats Truth (Donald Hoffman): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33231784
– Podcast w/ John Vervaeke Λ Donald Hoffman on TOE: https://youtu.be/EwTpdCVsttI
– Podcast w/ Joscha Bach Λ Donald Hoffman on TOE: https://youtu.be/bhSlYfVtgww
– Podcast w/ Bernardo Kastrup on TOE: https://youtu.be/lAB21FAXCDE
– Debate with Sean Carroll and Philip Goff: https://youtu.be/rCPCyri1rXU
– Classic Paper on Fine-Tuning (Roger White, 2000): https://web.mit.edu/rog/www/papers/fine_tuning.pdf
– Debate between Philip and Don on Philip’s channel: https://youtu.be/icY3Fuik2W4
Source
We are going to find dark energy and dark matter outside of space time. Hoffman is right, there is a different physics where spacetime falls apart. A reality and physics where there is no arrow of time is wild. While Litman and Weinstein and crew waste their time toiling lost inside spacetime, Hoffman is boldly going outside. His point that quantum physics doesn't make sense to us because it is incomplete is the most valuable scientific information I have heard in my life. It just makes sense.
It is clear, the virus FEAR, spreads as we see far, and hear near, taste, touch and feel real… Fear Not .
I AM HERE
Philip Goff is an emotional idiot. “It doesn’t work!!” lol then says he doesn’t know what he’s saying 1:11:40
Phillip’s hypothesis is flawed at the end of the video because he says just because someone is winning in the casino doesn’t mean other people are playing, but it does mean that someone has played it and will play it again.
Basically one guy says we live in a mind and the other guy says we are the minds creating this and they couldn’t come to an agreement other than consciousness is fundemental swag
Just 5 minutes in and heard enough from Goff.
For Goff it is getting to close to God… that is his problem
Goff can’t handle the truth – he is not getting it…. We are in a world we evolved but thru projection of a conscious agent. It is a half truth
i cannot say here. but i know, and id like to share this.
If this was a boxing match the British guy lost in my eyes! But I like the interviewer! Keep this debate and discussion coming sir!
– @a.s.2426 ‘I want to reiterate that Hoffman has stated that according to his probabilistic interpretation of evolutionary theory there is a “zero percent” chance (I believe those are the exact words he likes to use) that Reality 1 is the same as Reality 2. I claim that this argument is self-defeating because evolutionary theory is a part of Reality 1 and it does not provide any way to infer anything about Reality 2’
Reality 1 is space/time. Evolutionary theory is entirely time dependent and (if it were true) it cannot work in any reality that does not have time. So if our ‘real’ reality is reality 2, and reality 2 is timeless, then what we think we see in space/time reality 1 cannot be the truth. Therefore a reality that puts forth a time dependent scientific theory cannot be true in reality 2. Not to mention that evolutionary theory itself says it is not true as its maintains that evolution is survival of the fittest, not survival of the truth, and therefore fitness and survivability would usurp truth at every turn.
Evolutionary theory is not true even in reality 1, although it can look true to many people because it is a good story with great marketing and it is wholly anti-God which appeals to many. Scientifically though it is weak, weak, weak. You asked for my reasons for dismissing evolutionary theory and I gave you many scientific reasons in previous answers. I can give more but surely they are enough as they are basic scientific facts .
Why do you give time such magical properties? Let me ask you, what do you think time actually is? Understanding that will help break the spell of the evolutionists have cast on you. They seem to think that time is some kind of magic machine and that if you have enough of it then a bacteria can pop up ‘by accident’ and then eventually evolve into all life on earth. There is zero real evidence for any of that and plenty of evidence against it.
So what properties does time have that it can invent new DNA information, transform bacteria and fish into land animals? Turn those same creatures into apes and then humans? What magic is it in time that can do that?
Goff does not get it at all. Poor Don Hoffman having to repeatedly explain the obvious to such people and prof Don explained so clearly and well. But all Goff kept saying was how much he needed evolution to be true. How much he needed natural selection to be fundamentally true. He completely missed by a mile the reality that Don kept trying to enlighten him with. It was so frustrating listening to someone repeatedly not understand the simple truths that Hoffman was explaining about how science works. Our scientific theories are not the truth, they are pointers towards the truth and they all have inbuilt limits. What is it about that that you don't understand Philip? Evolution theory is not true fundamentally. Why is that so hard to accept? It is pretty obvious if you think about it that Darwinian evolution cannot possibly be true fundamentally.
I still haven't figured out what Hoffman is talking about.
This goes double for politics 😅
"Those people don't have any neurons" … Worst host … Goodbye boy
I am the One under the avatar of KC and you are the One under another particular avatar. So, I = you. And so for all “things.” And the point, according to Hoffman (the meaning or purpose), is for the One to understand what it is by understanding what it’s not. Whatever this says, if it says anything at all, is not a deliverance of science. No way. Could this idealist view be true, though? Could it be the way reality is? I suppose so. But if it is, I don’t see how “we” could ever know, even after death, when “I” lose “my” headset and the headsets of “everything” are no more. So, about this metaphysical view, I just don’t know what to make of it.
Love the concepts presented here. Absolutely fascinating discussion. Thanks so much for bringing together these minds, fueling the discussion, and sharing it on the channel. Science is just language to explain experience and help predict future experience. That works for me, and super determinism, yes! 👏 The only theory that is not disprovable, but also super determinism describes everything by describing nothing. So its a very simple dualistic perspective. But then, all theories are just a perspective with scope and limits. 🌞☝️
I don’t understand Hoffman’s reasoning at all. He wants to argue that our perceptions of reality don’t correspondent to the actual attributes of the reality external to and independent of our perceptions based on an argument he derives from evolutionary theory which itself is nothing more than a set of assertions made about said external and independent reality from behind the veil of our perceptions. It’s a clear self-refuting circularity.
Hoffman nails it and says it no different than Ramana Maharishi, Nisargadatta, Jung, and others 🐸
in Lak'ech Ala K'in <3
I like to imagine that the moon is retrocausal. Because we exist, it must have the size and distance from the earth that it does. If we didn't have the moon that we do, we might never have evolved on this planet. The fantastic coincidences that that precede our existence, aren't as random as we like to believe. But are in fact forced into existence, to account for our conscious awareness of these things. This I believe would be a consequence of Consciousness being fundamental. The shape of things that exist, would be responsive to the awareness of those same things. We may be inside of a living Cosmic Fractal Feedback Loop…at least that what I like to imagine.
All the mechanical parts and mechanisms inside a computer mathematically work precisely together to project a false reality to the headset..This must also be true for us..What we are experiencing is not the reality of the mechanisms out of space/time that creates this illusionary human experience..Is this the idea here?
1:04:47 "the walls are getting wider i hope i never find them" mac miller.
The pen is indeed made of subjective experiences from thought to in the hand of so many. Ever "watch how its made"?😊
39 minutes 😂
I like to watch NDE testimonies, see where they overlap then use that as a ground base for further exploration into ultimate reality. If only experience is real, it makes sense to listen to those who've experienced taking the "headset" off then putting it back on. Though I understand that Hoffman's goal is to get there through reasoning and such testimonies have most likely impacted his motivation. "Reality is "A" headset", Hoffman doesn't say it directly but I can only take it as that there is only one headset and God is wearing it. Essentially projecting His imagination creating everything, hence everything projected is consciousness, even a rock. He believes there is no distinction between anything, we are no more special than a rock, its all one projection. Outside the "headset" we are all one because it's God wearing it.
I will give you a hint remember Jesus said that if you can see the smallest thing you would see God. Now let me give you a hint. If you dream you create a world you are living in. You cannot hold it together long enough to live a life time in. But think you have the power of the mind of God you could create the world and create everything in it and you create the other people in the dream, but unlike you the other beings are a part of you even though the thinking they do is not the dream creation it is a part of you in them, now you have the basic answer.
Your true self is connected to the body and any feelings of the body good or bad is transferred to the real you. Now when you dream you create a world and beings like a woman that you make love to. Now when you have the feeling that comes with making love, its feelings is transmitted to the real you and the body because you are connected to the body, it transmits the feeling of the body to the real you, and you experience the exciting signal. when you are in the dream you may see a sky, buildings people and if you could hold the dream and stay in it and start to look into what the things are made of you will learn what you see when we look into what this world is made of, it is the same. It is a creation made by your father (GOD), the same as your dream creation.
All things are alive because like a dream is a part of you. Rocks are part of God the same as the things in a dream are a part of you. The dream is your creation and this Universe is Gods creation.
It’s not put on that head set it is get into the body I created to experience the creation.
I'm enjoying Philip Goff's effort. He is evolving. You are improving arguments and pushing others out of their comfort zone. As was the case in this debate with Don Hoffman, but without losing the ability to debate. If he continues on this path he could become a very important philosopher for me.
The asker of the question being asked their own question first is genius 😊
So as space time collapses so goes reality. However, consciousness transcends this collapse. So all things perceived within space time comes to an end at minus 33 cm according to Einstein theory except consciousness. Can consciousness light a path outside of space time for additional discoveries and then project backwards into space time where supposedly lies reality.
Don has owned this one.
There is no spoon.
Poor Don having to dumb down his simplest ideas for this "guy." Absurdly obvious what the man is saying.
Right we're in the matrix playing the game of life through to our matrix brain receiving frequency from somewhere individually by to our DNA signature = to our senses feeling like real
– where are those coming from?
– how to detect those frequencies?
– do we have to upgrade our brains inside the matrix?
– how many matrix levels are made?
DEAR PHILIP, Your books are concise and clear. Galileo’s Error makes a great case for Panpsychism. But when I see you in shows like this, the clarity becomes confusion. You kept seeing a logical contradiction in the Evolution argument because you are stuck in the Spacetime “Domain” and can’t see beyond it. When you step out of that box as Don explained over and over, the contradiction is no longer there. Very frustrating seeing you being unable of doing that. Don is a very patient man, others, like Bernardo would’ve not being as kind. The truly interesting conversation was between Don and Curt, who raised excellent points, clearly getting what Don was saying and understanding his own (Curt’s) arguments, unlike you.
This argument that Phil keeps using about "we can't know we evolved" is such a weak one… I liked this talk quite a bit, and in general I thought Phil was an interesting thinker, but damn. That was painful to watch him say over and over and over. He was not grasping Don's point at all.
Reductionism simply moves from a "bigger" frame to a "smaller" one following the principal of sufficient reason. Its ultimate goal is to identify what is at the "bottom", the true cause, the underlying reason, but its ability to deliver certainties fails because it assumes connections between the different scales of existence of objects and systems, and artificially creates an order of cause and effect from the smaller to the larger.
Donald Hoffman is my HERO. He is a pioneer… FOLLOW THE EVIDENCE…
FASCINATING HOFFMAN!!!!!
Man claims to know the basic nature of reality while telling you it's impossible to know the basic nature of reality.
Being a widow and missing the love of my life, listening to Don over ths past year has really helped me. We are from the same one consciousness. We are still and always were a part of each other.
Nevermind the content of the video. Is the guy in the red sweter wearing a lipstick?! That's the real question.
Every scientific theory is projection of truth because science deals within the realms of five senses which is product of evolution, and all scientific instruments are extension of our five senses. That's why science can never go beyond materialism , it's good for utilities , understanding nature of material etc. But not consciousness !
We dont live in a matrix we live in clown world and this guy is Charley Carolli (head clown blackpool tower circus)
The Matrix conspiracy theory is much older than you think. It's almost 2000 years old. It is the core belief of the Gnostic religion that appeared in the Roman Empire at the same time as Christianity and in competition with it.
Here's something that could be close to this. What if the AII of the future is building itself through the past by quantum manipulation. So everything we are doing is to build the AI that will rule all things.
I like the concept of – We are living in subreality – think of it like bubble inside bubble inside of bubble etc…- physical universe is basicaly battery for higher organism and our energy is a fuel to it – now imagine the matrix (on macrocosmic level) inside your smartphone battery – imagine hell that light beings go through inside every smartphone – their energy keeps your phone alive.
The Double Slit Experiment!
Explain that anomaly!
Reality switches on when it's observed.
Light from stars millions of light years away change from a wave to a particle when observed. The light doesn't time travel. The light gets switched on. The Universe saves energy and only uses it when needed.
You are living in an AI Simulation!