Variable Minds
Nobel Laureate Sir Roger Penrose on his Orch OR theory of consciousness that could change what we know about time, the universe and reality, by incorporating the physics of consciousness. Explore mind blowing facts about our reality that show consciousness in quantum mechanics.
▶️ Read the article on Forbes.com https://rb.gy/s5uzf
“Testing A Time-Jumping, Multiverse-Killing, Consciousness-Spawning Theory Of Reality”
This is a distillation of approximately 27 hours of talks from October 2022 – October 2023. This video was edited so that viewers without math or physics backgrounds could understand these ideas.
Orchestrated Objective Reduction (Orch OR) is the Penrose-Hameroff theory of consciousness based on quantum physics.
If you have any questions, please leave a comment to be considered for inclusion in a follow-up interview. Please include a question mark in your questions (that’s what I’ll filter for).
Subtitles [CC] have been proofread by a human 🙂
Interview edited for time. Integrity of expert commentary respected and preserved.
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▶️ Check out my articles on Forbes: https://rb.gy/pstfz
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I’m Andrea Morris, an interdisciplinary researcher and science and tech journalist contributing 80+ stories to Forbes.com and a member of National Association of Science Writers (NASW.org). My passion is understanding creative intuition, consciousness and intelligence and all its complexity and whatever form it takes.
Variable Minds is a channel intersecting science, tech, art, and creativity. We’ll talk to experts and investigate cognitive systems in humans, nonhumans, and AI, the hard problem of consciousness, and movements to hybridize with technology: transhumanism and the extended mind thesis (EMT).
We’ll also examine the artistic mind, unique artistic expression, and the challenges to intelligent and creative anthropocentrism in the wake of generative art, large language models, and exponential technology. At the core of this channel is a commitment to continual learning, holistic thinking (intelligent holism) and the joy of lifelong learning.
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Fantastic article in Forbes. Wish I had known I could've watched it lol. Or did I know?
You say that you feel that you are making conscious decisions when playing ping-pong so you discount the evidence that shows there isn’t time. Yet in the same breath you say that you didn’t play well. If you had taken the time to learn to play well, you would have come to the realization that when you stop thinking and allow your body to move itself, you suddenly can play at a much higher level. That is, until you start thinking again and that is when the fault occurs.
It seems like you are tying yourself in knots because special relativity is dogmatic to you. What if special relativity is incorrect? Are you not allowed to think in those terms because you are bound by what might be described as a religion?
Confusing to me. So how does my observation invoke gravitational power? If my observation collapses the wave function, why doesn't that evidence causality, rather than retrocausality? I'm obviously NOT a genius!!!
Sounds like deepak Chopra
Let's talk about 4D. A slice of 3-D as a 2-D shape. A slice of a 2D shape is a 1 D. So a 4D shape would be sliced to make 3D.
Likewise, we are third dimensional beings – but our vision is in two dimensions. Even our hearing is. Does that mean a 4D being "sees" in 3D? And does that mean they experience us on a 3D level (they live us maybe feeling us)?
We are BD being so use 2-D to express ourselves and record our history. We write, record pictures and movies, sound. Does that mean a four deep being is using 3-D in order to record its history and for entertainment? Are we the entertainment or the Instagram and Facebook or the Star Wars Saga to 4D beings?
I knew it . 2 years ago I hypothesized that photons come from the future . It would explain the collapse of the wave function . And the speed of light . As well as super position .
Come on. Nothing can go back in time!
The only way I can think of that an observer could affect the position of a particle by collapsing the wave function by simply observing is if thought is somehow connected to the manifestation of reality, at least on the quantum level.
Interesting analogy…I saw Bruce Lee play ping-pong with nunchucks
Another instance of further manipulating gullible minds!!! Once you downplay that "Motor-Force" that IS in effect one's "Consciouness" you're taken the mule from the cart. Today's form of "Learning" took a wrong turn somewhere.
Can someone explain why it is that physicists don't consider the collapse of the wave function as a transfer of energy from waveform to matter probably due to something like the orbital period of the outside electrons of individual atoms?
Doesn't bob and Alice also proves that space is real. Whether it is field or something else. Lol.
Doesn't bob and Alice also proves that space is real. Whether it is field or something else. Lol.
I think I time jumped yesterday…..today is 10 April 2024….n I saw a movie with Dwayne Johnson n bratt Pitt in it. It was just a clip.
Wow, what a thumbnail, i had no choice, other than clicking. 😀
This retro causality is even spookier than non locality. Superdeterminism seems to he the only theory that makes sense of all this so far.
A segment from 'Saved by the Light of the Buddha Within'…
My new understandings of what many call 'God -The Holy Spirit' – resulting from some of the extraordinary ongoing after-effects relating to my NDE. during September 1970..
Myoho-Renge-Kyo represents the identity of what some scientists are now referring to as the unified field of consciousnesses. In other words, it’s the essence of all existence and non-existence – the ultimate creative force behind planets, stars, nebulae, people, animals, trees, fish, birds, and all phenomena, manifest or latent. All matter and intelligence are simply waves or ripples manifesting to and from this core source. Consciousness (enlightenment) is itself the actual creator of everything that exists now, ever existed in the past, or will exist in the future – right down to the minutest particles of dust – each being an individual ripple or wave.
The big difference between chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo and most other conventional prayers is that instead of depending on a ‘middleman’ to connect us to our state of inner enlightenment, we’re able to do it ourselves. That’s because chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo allows us to tap directly into our enlightened state by way of this self-produced sound vibration. ‘Who or What Is God?’ If we compare the concept of God being a separate entity that is forever watching down on us, to the teachings of Nichiren, it makes more sense to me that the true omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence of what most people perceive to be God, is the fantastic state of enlightenment that exists within each of us. Some say that God is an entity that’s beyond physical matter – I think that the vast amount of information continuously being conveyed via electromagnetic waves in today’s world gives us proof of how an invisible state of God could indeed exist.
For example, it’s now widely known that specific data relayed by way of electromagnetic waves has the potential to help bring about extraordinary and powerful effects – including an instant global awareness of something or a mass emotional reaction. It’s also common knowledge that these invisible waves can easily be used to detonate a bomb or to enable NASA to control the movements of a robot as far away as the Moon or Mars – none of which is possible without a receiver to decode the information that’s being transmitted. Without the receiver, the data would remain impotent. In a very similar way, we need to have our own ‘receiver’ switched on so that we can activate a clear and precise understanding of our own life, all other life and what everything else in existence is.
Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo each day helps us to achieve this because it allows us to reach the core of our enlightenment and keep it switched on. That’s because Myoho-Renge-Kyo represents the identity of what scientists now refer to as the unified field of consciousnesses. To break it down – Myoho represents the Law of manifestation and latency (Nature) and consists of two alternating states. For example, the state of Myo is where everything in life that’s not obvious to us exists – including our stored memories when we’re not thinking about them – our hidden potential and inner emotions whenever they’re dormant – our desires, our fears, our wisdom, happiness, karma – and more importantly, our enlightenment.
The other state, ho, is where everything in Life exists whenever it becomes evident to us, such as when a thought pops up from within our memory – whenever we experience or express our emotions – or whenever a good or bad cause manifests as an effect from our karma. When anything becomes apparent, it merely means that it’s come out of the state of Myo (dormancy/latency) and into a state of ho (manifestation). It’s the difference between consciousness and unconsciousness, being awake or asleep, or knowing and not knowing.
The second law – Renge – Ren meaning cause and ge meaning effect, governs and controls the functions of Myoho – these two laws of Myoho and Renge, not only function together simultaneously but also underlies all spiritual and physical existence.
The final and third part of the tri-combination – Kyo, is the Law that allows Myoho to integrate with Renge – or vice versa. It’s the great, invisible thread of energy that fuses and connects all Life and matter – as well as the past, present and future. It’s also sometimes termed the Universal Law of Communication – perhaps it could even be compared with the string theory that many scientists now suspect exists.
Just as the cells in our body, our thoughts, feelings and everything else is continually fluctuating within us – all that exists in the world around us and beyond is also in a constant state of flux – constantly controlled by these three fundamental laws. In fact, more things are going back and forth between the two states of Myo and ho in a single moment than it would ever be possible to calculate or describe. And it doesn’t matter how big or small, famous or trivial anything or anyone may appear to be, everything that’s ever existed in the past, exists now or will exist in the future, exists only because of the workings of the Laws ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’ – the basis of the four fundamental forces, and if they didn’t function, neither we nor anything else could go on existing. That’s because all forms of existence, including the seasons, day, night, birth, death and so on, are moving forward in an ongoing flow of continuation – rhythmically reverting back and forth between the two fundamental states of Myo and ho in absolute accordance with Renge – and by way of Kyo. Even stars are dying and being reborn under the workings of what the combination ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’ represents. Nam, or Namu – which mean the same thing, are vibrational passwords or keys that allow us to reach deep into our life and fuse with or become one with ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’.
On a more personal level, nothing ever happens by chance or coincidence, it’s the causes that we’ve made in our past, or are presently making, that determine how these laws function uniquely in each of our lives – as well as the environment from moment to moment. By facing east, in harmony with the direction that the Earth is spinning, and chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo for a minimum of, let’s say, ten minutes daily to start with, any of us can experience actual proof of its positive effects in our lives – even if it only makes us feel good on the inside, there will be a definite positive effect. That’s because we’re able to pierce through the thickest layers of our karma and activate our inherent Buddha Nature (our enlightened state). By so doing, we’re then able to bring forth the wisdom and good fortune that we need to challenge, overcome and change our adverse circumstances – turn them into positive ones – or manifest and gain even greater fulfilment in our daily lives from our accumulated good karma. This also allows us to bring forth the wisdom that can free us from the ignorance and stupidity that’s preventing us from accepting and being proud of the person that we indeed are – regardless of our race, colour, gender or sexuality. We’re also able to see and understand our circumstances and the environment far more clearly, as well as attract and connect with any needed external beneficial forces and situations. As I’ve already mentioned, everything is subject to the law of Cause and Effect – the ‘actual-proof-strength’ resulting from chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo always depends on our determination, sincerity and dedication.
For example, the levels of difference could be compared to making a sound on a piano, creating a melody, producing a great song, and so on. Something else that’s very important to always respect and acknowledge is that the Law (or if you prefer God) is in everyone and everything.
NB: There are frightening and disturbing sounds, and there are tranquil and relaxing sounds. It’s the emotional result of any noise or sound that can trigger off a mood or even instantly change one. When chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo each day, we are producing a sound vibration that’s the password to our true inner-self – this soon becomes apparent when you start reassessing your views on various things – such as your fears and desires etc. The best way to get the desired result when chanting is not to view things conventionally – rather than reaching out to an external source, we need to reach into our own lives and bring our needs and desires to fruition from within – including the good fortune and strength to achieve any help that we may need. Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo also reaches out externally and draws us towards, or draws towards us, what we need to make us happy from our environment. For example, it helps us to be in the right place at the right time – to make better choices and decisions and so forth. We need to think of it as a seed within us that we’re watering and bringing sunshine to for it to grow, blossom and bring forth fruit or flowers. It’s also important to understand that everything we need in life, including the answer to every question and the potential to achieve every dream, already exists within us.
As observers, aren't we part of the wave function?
Intersting. I will think about it.
Sehr sehr interessant.
Quantum entanglement is what I know of that proves best that the hidden force called consciousnes or the force that unifies everything exists.
The arrow of time is not time itself, but just a signal of which way time is in motion at that moment in time .
Which may not be relative with higher than a 3rd dimension of thought ,dreams and ideas ..
@40:00 (how long it takes to make a decision; sports atheletes appear to make decisions spontaneously). Benjamin Libet discovered that we make our decisions/choices 1/3 second before we consciously say "I choose that!" Dr. David Vago has confirmed this, finding that it takes about 1/2 second for our conscious experience to emerge from the subconscious. (He gave a Tedx talk about this. It has "mindfulness" in the title. Basically, from a buddhism/mindfulness perspective our "awakened" mode is to observe what emerges & exercise a veto power over it. Don't run with what emerges as if it's real. It's 95% of the brain – subconscious – emerging our experience to the 5% conscious part of the brain, which tends to believe whatever emerges and identify with it, run with it like it's reality when it's from the murky dream-like subconscious).
And then there's the known phenomenon of "the zen of archery" (any skill, sport). The more an archer tries to control every movement, keep the target in the bullseye, choose exactly when to release the arrow… the less accurate they are. There's a "letting go" where the most accuracy comes from. An intuition or "6th sense." But, you can't just start randomly shooting arrows and be more accurate. It takes all that "trying" first, and that opens up an intuition that is proven to be more accurate than trying.
4:00 For consistency 'kets' on both sides of the equation should have a vertical line.
He doesn't know what he's talking about, but at least he's being honest.
Beautiful questions…
It’s a reality that you’re a smoke show!
When I died. I observed enering the = the black hole. To observe myself passing threw the = the event horizon observing 99.999% erofeb = before while inside of the eternal afterlife heaven observing myself as 1 = 1 of the ( 33,333 )3 x 99,999 observers observing everything, everywhere, every time from both inside and outside of everything. As a sphere shaped thought form of serlf measuring nothing= nothing in existing space occupying size. Observing the after = retfa existing being healed and correctly corrected by the thought form cosmos. As the tested and proven 0% theory 0% evil = 100% innocent, 0% wrong = 100% right, 0% false = 100% true I shall not be evil wanting absence of the awareness of I… = I. = I. = I… + uoy … = you. = you. = uoy… with 5D I = I supernatural consciousness awareness of being capable of 15D conceptual thought thinking impossible to be perceived by a instintc controlled impulse guided deceitful envious impulse guided anti god bringer of destruction anmd death to ever observe the ground position with the responsibility to support shield, defend and protect every value from every deceitful anti identity identifier of anti values the 100% exact, contra, anti, opposite of the tested by ( 33,333 )3 x 99,999 0 shadowed ocean of light, life creating solar gods. Causing existence to exist. Observation that transformed me into the blue ray _ x _ under the LzA in The = The test ***M…(L.z.A.)W***…transport of the LzA driver of the ( 33,333 )# x 99,999 thought form passengers to realize we are the existing thought creators of the thought that became everything.
Gravity on planet earth is a hug stopping everything supported by the ground. From a non or anti gravity extreme everything being completely destroyed on the entire planet.
This is really scary this could mean infinite suffering!!!
I can send information if the information I am sending is the fact of my measuring a quantum state. So a pattern of measuring can be "sent" as information.
Using one fact and adding a hypothesis on top of a hypothesis on top of another hypothesis. Which is disjointed to the one fact you really have.
Then presenting it as a viable Theory or fact.
Is called Voodoo science.
True science is about observation. And being able to do reproducible experiments within a 97 percent accuracy. The reason why it's not 100% although it could be it's always going to be due to uncontrollable variables nothing is a true constant, and the sensitivity Factor has to be acknowledge. With a materials you're working with at the time of the experiment and or observation.
Example:
Leaving a block of ice outside and observing what happens. How many conclusions can we come to. As we watch it melt or not melt.
This is a problem with science today. Too quick to publish anything to get some sense of notoriety.
And because most of them have been told they are intelligent. They buy into their own hype.
Remember intellect an emotions are two different things. Intellect are the tools that you pick up going through life. But your emotions are who you actually are that guide you and can help you use the tools that you gathered or corrupt you and destroy you due to being emotionally and morally retarded or just underly developed.
And definitely about 80% is controlled by the environment and Society you grow up in. You can see this clearly in different societies today and throughout recorded history.
So basically or should I say clearly what he's talking about is a bunch of nonsense.
Just like today there is no gender it's only what you say it is. How sad
wonderful interview!
This sounds like a bad Marvel movie: "We have no plot, but the movie is about our consciousness, the soul, we have to make it sound magical… Slap "quantum" in front of it!" You might be right old man… But you have to prove it.
So what would happen if you test the collapse of the wave function in an environment that does not have gravitational force?
The level of understanding and preparedness on the side of the interviewer is unbelievable.
Dr. Penrose acknowledges that wave function collapse violates the Schrödinger equation, admits that he had in the past believed in Everettian many worlds, yet has since abandoned that belief. But he fails to detail why he no longer believes in many worlds, which he now thinks is hogwash. Why, Sir Roger, is many worlds wrong?
What a smart man.. Great interview and interviewer as well.
Fabulous interview, Ms. Morris. He enjoyed it as much as you did, and your questions and his responses were awesome.
Dear Andrea Morris. Your range and depth of knowledge are truly impressive. I have a theory-in-the-making for the relationship between the fine structure constant and a reality-modulation effect across the collapse of the wave function, and a few more mind-boggling components. Relevant to your discussion with Dr. Penrose, whose joint theory with Dr. Hameroff – which I've been following for some time – mesmerized me, I would suppose the "retro-activity" happens at the speed of light. Perhaps the "delay" (in the sense of a flicker/burst of the physical modulation?) is only in consciousness registering the event after an instance of consciousness was birthed during the collapse of the associated wave function. It has to be functionally "retroactive", yet happening near instantly. In other words, the trigger of consciousness and actual consciousness, even if in different realities, has to be singularly entangled functionally. Feel free to contact me for a chat. Happy to share some of my wild ideas.
I love Roger Penrose. He is so open-minded and tenacious at the same time.
Our current model of the universe can't explain why the universe exists and wasn't ripped apart as soon as the Big bang happened so I'll hear the smart person out😅
If you can relax your mind a little and not grasp for rational answers to these fundamental problems you might really enjoy this conversation. I loved it
Penrose is one of the last few bunch of scientists not flying in sky high ideas like string and multiverse theories.
Did I hear correctly? Gravity causes the wave function collapse? If so, does Gravity interact with, or is it somehow intertwined with consciousness?
This is truly fantastic. Thanks for making it available and especially with your questions that keep the audience in mind to give us helpful intros, recaps, and reflections. Looking up the Forbes piece now. Keep it coming! Subbed.